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Computers have used magentic storage almost since their conception, and they still widely use it. The most peculiar example of that is how home computers of the 70s and 80s were using domestic tape players for data storage.

The affordability of the medium and the ease of the implementation are very attractive qualities, as you can see! There's also a bonus: magnetic media can store analog data (including audio).

So, it is very tempting to try and build a magnetic storage system. There are three major components to it: magnetic medium, magnetic head, and "glue" (mechanics, signal amplifiers, etc).

Here comes AEG Magnetophon K1, circa 1935, the first commercial tape reel recorder.

What does it have in common with modern devices like reel-to-reel decks? Turns out, a lot!

It uses a very similar medium - and in fact tapes from Magnetophon should be playable on newer devices, and vice versa (but playback speed needs to be adjusted).

It uses magnetic head based on the same principles as modern heads, and it has very similar schematics - though it turns out cheap Chinese walkman knock-offs are closer to AEG than Elizabethan, because no AC bias :D

So, the step one here is to try and make a working magnetic tape that will work with my tape recorder. If there's a way to make new tape, this very method can be used to make floppies and magnetic drums.

The very first magnetic tapes used iron, which was replaced with iron rust Fe3O4 for Magnetophon, and shortly after replaced with another iron rust, Fe2O3. Let's start simple and see where will it get us?

The tape medium itself, since the 50s or so, was based on 3M Scotch product, but before that it was just paper and glue. I want to experiment with both, but I'll start with the simpler one: Scotch tape, 1/4 inch.

I wanted to make an iron tape first. Where do I get iron? A steel nail and a file!

Prototype 1

The tape is grainy and there's lots of gaps, but no more metal can be added to it.

The tape doesn't work, as expected.

What if I use existing magnetic paper from tickets?

Prototype 2.
Doesn't work either.
No matter what they use for magnetic paper, it's not good.

Prototype 3:
Iron grains were too big. Let's use fine iron powder!

Result: the tape is very heavy and responds to magnets a lot, but it doesn't work with the tape recorder.

Hypothesis: it needs both magnetic and paramagnetic material in the tape. Is it too magnetic?

Prototype 4

What is less magnetic then iron but still have somewhat similar properties? Rust!

Perhaps that was the reason why Magnetophon used it?

Let's get find a rusty pan and scrape some rust off. xD It's going to be unpredictable mess of Fe2O3, Fe3O4 and FeOOH and maybe more.

Does it work? No.
Does it look similar to magentic tape? Hell yes. You still can see the grainy texture and pretty brown colour

We already know from the web that many tapes use Fe2O3 (until it was replaced by CrO2 and more complicated stuff). Let's get some in a science lab shop, and figure out how to synthesize it later.

Prototype 5:

Applying Fe2O3 to scotch and paper tape. It is really fine rust, and the surface looks nice.

It looks JUST like a store bought tape

But it doesn't work?!

Testing it with a magnet (get a magnet and see if it sticks and how much) shows that it is much less magnetic than regular store bought tape. Huh??! Huh!!!?!

Prototype 6

Let's try to add MORE rust. Glueing an extra layer of rust on top of rust made it slightly more magnetic, but it does not work, still.

A magnet in a glove and Fe2O3 rust: it is barely magnetic.

Do we have other options? Hmm...

Prototype 7:

What if we cut our Fe2O3 with some small amount of Fe? It will make the tape as magnetic as we want it.

I made a tape with increasing concentrations of Fe in the mix.

And, it's a miracle! Well, science.

We recorded some radio on the tape, and the signal/noise level seemed to be quite good. The volume level was quite low though

The BIG question: 50 years ago, did the companies used some other sort of Fe2O3?

So, did the companies 50 years ago used some other sort of Fe2O3?

YES

The common type of rust, alpha-Fe2O3, is actually not a great ferromagnetic! The type of rust used commercially for data storage has different crystalline structure and called gamma-fe2o3

It should be possible to convert some of a-Fe2O3 to g-Fe2O3 by heating. We might get some side results, though, like atomic Fe.

Nevertheless, why not try?

Another potential option is boiling Fe2O3 in water at 150C. Maybe we'll get to it later.

We made sure to make our material really hot. Maybe it was a bad idea, but...

Look at those magnetic properties, damn!!!

Prototype 9: the tape sort of works, it's very loud, but it has lots of large grains of the magnetic material that result in lots of added noise.

Looking at the fractions, Atsuko realised that there's lots of iron-looking grains in there. We probably overheated the material. If we can figure out how to make the particles finer, that could help, too.

And so the quest for Gamma-Fe2O3 begins! If it fails, we can always return to figuring out proportions between rust and iron xD Or, perhaps, rust and nickel - such a mix should also be ferromagnetic.

Some resources said that we should be able to get gamma-Fe2O3 after baking it with water at 100-150 °C.

The magnetic properties of the rust didn't seem to change (a tape test needed to verify though).

Next step, incidentally useful for just getting Fe2O3 rust:

Nail is attached to + anode, copper wire is - cathode, we run 1-2 amps of low voltage current through a broth made of NaCOOH•nH2O - which is an electrolyte that shouldn't react with Fe at all. The result should be a solution of yellow rust FeO(OH), known as ochre.

FeO(OH) heated to about 200°C should give us Fe2O3, but it's magnetic properties we won't know until we try.

The amount of FeOOH we got THIS time seemed to be insignificant. More research needed. But at least we got decent rust. xD

Perhaps @yottatsa could share more on this experiment.

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa

Nina you are nuts I love it

@selzero @yottatsa I know thanks ​

@stib @yottatsa ​ I can make a recording, yes, but I am not sure if it is useful outside of any context.

Perhaps the most sensible way would be to get a test audio file (sine, voice, music), and compare commercial tape with home-made tape, so it'd be possible to analyse how much worse DIY tape is compared to commercial one. But the tape runs at 19 cm per second, and I have maybe 1 (one) m of the tape - enough to confirm that it works/doesn't work, but not enough to do long-ish tests.

So, I could either make a 3s sample, or try to prepare a few meters of the tape as imperfect as it is now, and make a longer-running audio test.

@nina_kali_nina @stib @yottatsa Regarding "3s sample" -- people have "always" had some way to turn short tapes into loops (e.g. for special FX), somehow. I don't know how they do it, but it's at least a possibility.

@dougmerritt @stib @yottatsa fair enough~

@zarbet @yottatsa woooooooo please do

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa so I must admit to being quite out of the loop compared to past years. I'm still using my stock of BASF and Quantegy/Ampex, and a number of Maxell cassettes. If you need any small bits of tape for comparison maybe I could help.

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa The popular current production I see in studios now is from https://www.atrtape.com/
which split from https://www.atrservice.com/

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa Sadly, Mike passed away in 2013, but his opening a whole factory to make tape was consistent with his love of audio and the machines to record it: https://www.historyofrecording.com/Mike_Spitz.html

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa and one other link, it looks RMGI is now https://www.recordingthemasters.com/ so there are two sources for tape :)

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa heh, that means you're not biased by sillyness, and you can have good fun with it!

@dougmerritt @yottatsa wires do have advantages over tape, as far as I know: they don't need rocket-science magnetic head for them to work. Big reel-to-reel head needs to be made with 10um precision or so, and portable tape players require 1um...

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa Sorry to say that I do not have links for quenching etc. Clearly there *are* people out there somewhere who Know Things About This, but...

@dougmerritt @yottatsa T_T i sure hope there are people who still know how this can be done without an expensive lab

@nina_kali_nina @yottatsa In this particular case, it's only about timing of cooling, and I'm quite sure that you don't need sub-second timing for your purpose, so I wouldn't worry too much.

But speaking of which, perhaps you're the kind of person who would be interested in the classic "The Scientific American Book of Projects for the Amateur Scientist", C. L. Stong, 1960 (Goodreads has it as 1901 which is simply wrong).

How to make your own x-ray device, how to make your own cyclotron, biology, optics, much more.

It's a one-of-a-kind that probably couldn't be published today, since a few of the projects (like the x-ray and cyclotron) are very dangerous for non-experts or the careless sort.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4780983-the-scientific-american-book-of-projects-for-the-amateur-scientist

It's where I first heard of the Vortex (Hilsch / Ranque-Hilsch / Ranque-Dirac-Hilsch) tube for separating hot from cold, and is still the only place I personally have seen that when I didn't outright search for it -- but maybe that's just me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube

It was based on the magazine column https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amateur_Scientist

I see some used copies on the web for $68, not *too* bad for something weird like this, but if you can't locate a paper copy, I see there's a scan on archive.org and another on libgen.

https://archive.org/details/amateurscientist0000clst

Libgen has high-quality OCR more often than archive.org, but who knows.

@JHB17 @dougmerritt @yottatsa the theory for wire recorders is simpler, it should work with any iron wire and a strong magnetic field. Darn, I actually want to try it. :D

@ifixcoinops @yottatsa I have heard about the episode, yes! I haven't seen it, but from what I've heard, my guess would be they had Fe3O4/black oxide. I should check it out...

@DeltaWye @nina_kali_nina @yottatsa one of these days I'll get to his arcade :)

@slowtiger To be honest, I have no idea how to approach photo film making without investing in expensive chemicals and lab equipment. This tape is almost literally rust I scrapped from a pan on top of a sticky tape!

@nina_kali_nina That's what I like about it. This thread should be recommended to all SF authors who fantasize about re-inventing certain technologies after a havary ...

@slowtiger tbh this. As you might have noticed, every now and then I'm trying to do things that are supposed to be simple according to the common knowledge. They're not :)

@nina_kali_nina Coincidence: yesterday night I pondered an SF novel idea: 1000 yrs from now mankind is much smaller. But how far ist that possible? To have computers you need chips, which need lots of certain minerals, and that one very expensive photolithography machine from the Netherlands, and film, and more. So how small could mankind become and still use all this technology?

"Imagine: creating a pencil from scratch!" (Arno Schmidt)

@slowtiger pencil is ez, I made one many times o_O