@LilahTovMoon@tech.lgbtCybertruck putting out 120V through its body and wheels while charging 
What an insanely poorly made vehicle
@LilahTovMoon JESUS CHRIST LMAO
@LilahTovMoon uHHHHH???
@LilahTovMoon That's why it's not gonna make it here in Germany. We're running on 230V.
@cgudrian @LilahTovMoon don't mix up static electricity / direct current (like in the video, 120V) with alternating current (230V in Germany and many other countries).
@das_menschy @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon not sure what you mean, the video appears to show 120Vac on the exposed metal of the vehicle.
@Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon Ok, so I was wrong. I thought it's static electricity. My fault.
@das_menschy
I'd LOVE to see the guy from the Straßenverkehrsamt's face when Tesla comes to them and ask for a License to put that... ... THING out on the road.
@Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon "No idea if we got the license or not. The inspector ran screaming towards the horizon and disappeared there. 
" ;-)
@Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon It's most likely the charger is miswired- they are using AC charging and line and neutral are reversed. Neutral should be at ground potential, so if there's LN reversed, the chassis of the device (appliance, Cyberturkey, wotever) will have line voltage present. However, there's no excuse for the vehicle not detecting this wiring fault and warning the user and disconnecting the AC charger- that part is on Tesla
@weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon I agree it's most easily explained by a charger issue, but how should the car detect that, given that it's not grounded itself? I think the charger would have to have not only L and N reversed, but also PE connected to L, plus probably no RCD.
@cm N & earth should be at at the same potential (or mV close to it). If it isn't, the car should disconnect and go into a fault mode and put an alarm notice somewhere (dash cluster? Display screen?) This is what they pay the EEs big bucks for. @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon What the car sees on L, N and PE might not be the same as the outside world does, assuming sufficiently malicious wiring in the EVSE. And without a stake in the ground you can't really determine whether the wire labeled "PE" is at that potential.
@cm There's an earth reference in the charge connector, which should be sufficient to determine if L&N are correct or reversed. Most device design simply trusts that the sparky who wired the residence didn't cock it up. But it is possible to detect such a fault and protect the user from it. At the price of an EV, I would rather expect that feature would be there, it's not a toaster. @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@vladimir_lu@hachyderm.io@weezmgk It’s rapidly approaching a toaster if you stand barefoot and touch the wheel while charging in this situation :/
@chemoelectric@masto.ai@weezmgk @cm @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
You know, the whole thing would be safer with a dielectric body.
@chemoelectric In this situation, it seems to have that already. Touch the body and you die from electric. 
@cm @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@cm @weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon That’s my suspicion. The adapter probably doesn’t properly detect L/N swapping and only checks to see if N and PE have potential. Wire it sufficiently incorrectly and it puts hot on the output. Or maybe the car assumes N and PE are the same thing and has the chassis connected to N (or to both).
As for how to detect it, once you have power, it’s pretty straightforward to make a DC reference and check for AC potential between that reference and each input line. You can’t confirm whether a given line is actually earth versus something with DC bias, but you can tell whether AC exists in the absence of significant load. Think like running a set of non-contact voltage testers. Then only engage the relays (or IGBTs or whatever else you may want to use) to draw from the feed if you don’t detect AC on the PE line or N line.
@weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
J1772 is used for both 120v and 208/240V, so the same two pins are use for L+N and L1+L2. There's no reason to care what the potential of L and N are relative to PE for the onboard charger, the charger just needs to draw current from the two line inputs at whatever potential they are relative to each other.
This seems like the PE is connected to line.
DaveNull 
pResident Evil @devnull@mamot.fr@weezmgk What do you mean ? Even if Neutral and Live wires were inverted in the charger wiring, which sucks already, the chassis wouldn't be under 120 V… Neutral IS NOT supposed to be connected to chassis. That's Protective Earth Wire role to ground chassis.
PE and N have to same potential, 0V, but aren't supposed to be connected to each other. If electried chassis is connected to Neutral, it wouldnt be properly grounded…
@Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@devnull
Could it be, that those guys deliberately wired Live to PE for a nice Video?
@weezmgk @Habrok42 @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
DaveNull pResident Evil @devnull@mamot.fr@momo It's a possibility. But Tesla being a just a load of over-priced crap lacking quality insurance¹ cause that far-right conspiracist asshole Musk cuts corners, and this being the result of a manufacturing mistake made by an overworked under-paid modern slave, wouldn't surprised me… 
1. Given all the other problems cybershit have, and give how early Tesla cars would catch fire because batteries were exposed to road debris…
@weezmgk @Habrok42 @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@dlatchx@tfnux.org@weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
That's why we put a ground wire in the sockets. And connect the chassis to the ground wire.
In the worst-case scenario, this should trip the circuit breaker.
This isn't a new problem: a toaster has exactly the same problem.
And if an appliance manufacturer couldn't figure this out, they'd be taken off the market instantly... at least in Europe
@dlatchx @momo @Habrok42 @LilahTovMoon @weezmgk @das_menschy @cgudrian yup. Metal chassis of the appliance is grounded, or it’s double insulated such that any thing someone can touch cannot ever be live.
@das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
This isn't.
But some owners are having minor annoying problems with static electricity:
@JeffGrigg most drivers of any type of car experience static shocks. Caused by rubbing clothing fabrics on car upholstery. If the driver wears rubber soled shoes, there will be a charge potential difference from ground until the driver touches a grounded object. This can be a problem when pumping petrol into a vehicle. @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@anne_twain@theblower.au@JeffGrigg I had minor static electricity problems with my ICE cars.
@JeffGrigg @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
So maybe those aren't static shocks in the first place? But constant 120V potential, not only during charging?
@das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
DC is way more like AC than static.
120v DC is almost as dangerous as 120v AC, while 120v of static is nothing compared to rubbing feet on a carpet. (typically into the thousands)
@das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
holy shit, you're right! in the last bit of the video, it's visible that the multimeter is set to AC. so basically they connected the charger's phase wire to the body?
@cgudrian @LilahTovMoon @guenther @das_menschy it’s totally reasonable to assume something that stupid can’t happen.
@Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon @das_menschy
maybe they rewired the car for the video ^^
@LilahTovMoon @das_menschy @guenther @cgudrian can’t rule that out. Gotta get those clicks
@aaribaud@piaille.fr@das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon Static electricity would not show up with a meter *at all*.
@chemoelectric@masto.ai@das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon Nah, you wouldn't get static electricity on a metal body.
@Wifiwits
Which is a lot worse than some electro-statics...
@das_menschy @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
@cgudrian @LilahTovMoon
It will not happen here, since wallboxes here have to contain RCD ("FI"). And it has to have detection for ground faults too.
in other words: Even if it's not an issue with the electric system of the house (e.g. N and L reversed), even if it's a fault inside the the car, the wallbox should detect the issue and shut down... the very latest at the point of human contact to the chassis.
@adorfer @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon where’s here, and what’s RCD (“FI”)?
@rhymerepartee @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon RCD/GFCI/RCCB... every country uses a different acronym.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device
a cybertruck certainly is a very stupid car on so many levels. Nevertheless, the shown charging issue is most certain a fault of the wallbox or the installation at this home.
@vwbusguy@mastodon.online@adorfer @rhymerepartee @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon Ah, GFCI. Yeah, it's not required everywhere here (in the US). The main places where it is are outlets for kitchen appliances and hair dryers, but it is getting more common for them to be in other places of the house.
@vwbusguy @rhymerepartee @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon the GFCI is an essential part of the wallbox (or "mobile charging cable"). this is basically why it's so bulky, even the "dumb ones".
so even if you don't have any in the house (or have already one): The GFCI inside the wallbox in mandantory, since it's a "better one". it has to be able not only to detect AC faults, but DC fault and DC arcing too. (in case of an issue with the powerbank-chargers in the car, feeding back DC to the house.)
Reason number ... ~12?
(D.Burch) 
@catsalad@infosec.exchange@LilahTovMoon And to think that doofus wants to put people on Mars.
As Adam Something put it in his video:
1. Step one: go to Mars.
2. Step two: die.
@dogfox@mastodon.socialIt's like a train, but shittier.
It's like a bus, but shittier.
It's like an electric pickup truck, but shittier.
@catsalad @LilahTovMoon And put neural implants in sentient beings.
@LilahTovMoon oh my god…. Find myself wondering: Is this a design, erm, feature or a defect of that particular vehicle?
@Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon It's probably a defect; but the fact that that defect can happen and not be found and rejected during manufacturing... is the design flaw.
@Natanox@chaos.social@laprice @Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon The whole system should immediately cut power if there current where it doesn't belong, ESPECIALLY with such obvious parts like the chassis. The fact there is no security feature that prevents stuff like this… hard to find any word describing it better than "third-world design / engineering". It's a garbage product you'd only expect off of AliExpress, simply garbage.
he/him @TeflonTrout@beige.party@Natanox @laprice @Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon Hey, don't put aliexpress down here with this garbage, they sell perfectly good drone parts that have done well for me. Can't say the same about the incel camino
@Natanox@chaos.social@TeflonTrout @laprice @Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon AliExpress is like qualitative anarchy. You can find anything on it, but there's nothing to convey whether you're receiving a proper product or plastic garbage.
(Tech parts are usually working though)
@Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon Don't believe everything you see - there are many ways a vehicle can be modified to produce this unsafe condition.
There are actual engineers on staff at Tesla designing and building these cars, and engineers (real engineers, not tech-bros) have an unwavering code of ethics leaning towards safety.
Whatever you think of Musk, or Teslas, or people that buy Cybertrucks, please don't lump the engineers and workers at Tesla with them.
@Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon That being said, if this is actually happening it's pretty serious.
@rhempel @Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon
If it were common, I'd expect to be able to find more examples of it by searching.
I found this, that seems similar:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/zapped-while-charging-new-model-y.196272/
But I'm still not sure.
@JeffGrigg @Wifiwits @LilahTovMoon That post has plenty of comments pointing to the wall connection possibly being wired incorrectly - and that makes some sense in the installer mixed something up.
There is a GF interrupter in the wall connector that should trip well below the hazard level - that's why you don't die when your kitchen or bathroom appliance cord fails and you touch it.
All that's out the window with an incorrect install.
@anne_twain@theblower.au@JeffGrigg If this was serious and that guy was the owner of the car, do you think he'd be laughing like that? I don't. Cybertrucks are the butt of jokes all over the world and this is just another one imo.