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You should be able to change your legal name online, for free, as often as you want, for any reason

@prehensile I'd settle for once, but you're absolutely right.

@cadence @prehensile I think if we got to changing our names at will, we might as well stop using names at all. Governments (and others) would still want to keep track of you so this would entail something to the effect of assigning every human a number (e.g. US social security numbers).
To be clear: I think you should be able to change your name, but there are good reasons you can't just do it whenever you like. But it is also difficult to say when it is justified and when not.

@Johann150

so this would entail something to the effect of assigning every human a number (e.g. US social security numbers).

So what?

@cadence I think these systems are nightmares, especially with regard to data protection. For example it would hugely simplify profiling.

(Of course I am boring and don't think I will have to change my name anytime soon, so take it with a grain of salt.)

@Johann150 I think we should first focus on capitalism assigning everyone a unique number to make it easier to market to them. A thing that is happening, and which digital surveillance and home assistants makes extremely easy.

And as you said, the government can already keep track of us perfectly well through our names. Assigning us numbers in return for the freedom to change names would be the same outcome as present, no?

@mewmew @Johann150 give everyone a blockchain. that’ll solve things

@mewmew @Johann150 @cadence keys as identity is not such a great idea. What if you lose private key, you're fucked lol

@Johann150 @cadence @prehensile so then what would be a good reason to change my name if my personal decision isnt good enough? thats exactly what we have now, courts are deciding if your reason is "good enough"

@goddess @Johann150 yeah what ARE the good reasons you’re talking about, Johann? Examples?

@cadence @goddess As I said:
> But it is also difficult to say when it is justified and when not.
So I think courts deciding that kind of stuff is the right way, at least for now.

I am not a lawyer, but I know there is a law in 🇩🇪 about name changes; it also states that there has to be a "significant reason" to do so. (§ 3(1) NamÄndG) Being able to just do it would be nice, but it would entail huge problems for people that don't have access to these tracking systems I talked about. (1/2)

@cadence @goddess Of course this particular law is not unproblematic as it was signed by a particular man with a strange beard in 1938, and later used to stigmatize jews in the Third Reich. (Of course it has been changed since then.)
But that we still keep it around is IMHO a strong indication that there are certainly problems and troubles connected to changing your name and that it thus should also be at least a bit troublesome to do so. But "gender changes" should be a legitimate reason. (2/2)

@Johann150 @goddess

there are certainly problems and troubles connected to changing your name and that it thus should also be at least a bit troublesome to do so.

That’s not the fucking solution. The solution is the government working to get rid of these problems and troubles that surround name changes.

If the problem is that they suck at doing name changes because it causes them logistic problems, then they need to deal with those problems rather than passing on debt by increasing the barrier of entry.

@Johann150 @cadence @cadence @goddess "But that we still keep it around is IMHO a strong indication that there are certainly problems and troubles connected to changing your name"

OR its just a uncaring government not giving any shits about the needs of marginalized ppl bc theres no political gain to it? a well intentioned government taking everyones needs into account would have had decades to change legislation by now

@Johann150 @cadence also, do you *know* the current barriers to name change? bc i do, personally

also they literally made an easier way available for intersex people, explicitly excluding trans and non-binary people for no good reason, so its totally possible if they wanted to (also, you know, marriage is a thing)

@goddess @cadence > (Of course I am boring and don't think I will have to change my name anytime soon, so take it with a grain of salt.)

To my knowledge marriage only allows you to change your family name, not given names.

@Johann150 so? its still a name change and would still require the same bureaucracy, whats the difference

changing your first name is apparently this big scary life-changing thing and a court has to make sure that youre absolutely sure youre serious about this and you will never change back (its for your own good!!!)

meanwhile you can marry whoever and how often the fuck you want, while its widely known that a large percentage of marriages will end up in divorce

:dragnthaenk:

@goddess @cadence To my knowledge the naming laws are currently being reviewed by legislators so you have a point.
But I'm arguing, which is also addressed in the proposals: There are still restrictions on doing it. Current proposal is you'll be able to change your name every ten years without specifying a reason (details see newspaper article). And I presume if there is a reason you could change it any time.

🇩🇪 newspaper article <sueddeutsche.de/politik/namens>

@Johann150 @goddess I got bored of this discussion so I’m just going to ask that, in future, you should NOT go on to the public timeline, find posts from lgbt people that you have never talked to before, and write them a reply where you extensively and pretentiously disagree with them for some fucking reason

@Johann150 @goddess but I would like to thank you for letting me predict this happening entirely based on your bio contents. if you want to write more negative reactions to your shit awful posts into it, feel free to add:

“known by the lgbt community as fosstodon’s biggest reply guy”

@Johann150 10 years is fucking ridiculous

other states can do it as well, theres no excuse but laziness and bigotry

@goddess Yes it is mostly a social problem (as illustrated by my own ignorance on the topic), because most people are lazy and would probably not be willing to spend time keeping track of when people changed their names.
I agree that it is certainly a problem and something should be done about it. But the problem I see is people "abusing" this right i.e. changing their name just for fun or to annoy people. My question is how/if this should be prevented.

@Johann150 maybe you can just go inform yourself then

its kinda shitty coming in here, even admitting you dont know enough, and then still suggesting to a trans person that people hypothetically "abusing" their right is a major concern

why the fuck would anyone even want to go through that bureaucracy "for fun"?

@prehensile I want to change my name but it's such a huge hassle.

@prehensile @cadence should be limited to once a week so we don't get name based denial of service

@ChlorideCull @prehensile this is what a fucking techbro is unironically arguing in the replies for some reason

@ChlorideCull @prehensile @cadence make it work like dns, you can change your name trivially whenever you want but the old name might be cached for a little while

ideally like. a ttl of less than an hour?

@00dani @ChlorideCull @prehensile @cadence I mean that caching thing is essentially how it is anyway. Like, getting a name change through the bureaucracy everywhere can take more than a year after the legal process is done :/

@trisschen @ChlorideCull @prehensile @cadence well yeah, i was mostly shitposting

it'd be nice to have a guarantee that everyone eventually needs to consult the authoritative source on what your name is (i.e., you) tho

@prehensile Too bad we don't own our own names and instead are slaves to the state.

@prehensile Okay but consider: Can have multiple legal names at once - not like, a bunch of middle names, but actual, "sometimes this is my first name, and sometimes that is my first name" type thing.

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