In Sweden a toilet is a toilet is a toilet. No need to indicate who’s allowed to use it. It’s just a toilet.

Just for completeness: The photo was taken at Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenburg. The specific toilet is one out of 5 located next to each other.

body horror 

@livho I'd be kind of afraid I'd stumbled into a parallel universe of sentient toilets and what is inside that room is something I'd never unsee

@livho we do that too for a lot of toilets (i.e. in trains)

Having two (or even three) seperate toilets is totally a 1st world problem. - when you've got too much room to go for the simplest solution.

@drazraeltod @livho hello from the not-"first-world"; it's *definitely* not a first world problem.

@cadxdr @livho I didn't mean it literal as in "this only happens in rich countries", but like "this is a problem created by having more ressources, not less"

@drazraeltod @cadxdr So, if I understand you correctly, you mean that the problem arises once there are the resources to have more than one toilet/bathroom?

@drazraeltod @livho mate I think you still have a chance to say sorry and that you said something that does not make sense. if it were me I'd take it

@drazraeltod This is the Swedish version. In Denmark they have it similarly with toilet stalls, but still no gender separation.

@livho @drazraeltod Now I'm thinking about all the time and noise spent on Ally McBeal about the firm having a unisex bathroom.

(the people having a problem with it were the ones portrayed as being idiots)

@livho in Deutschland dagegen müssen sich Planende und Arbeitgeber:innen mit überkommenen sog “Arbeitnehmerschutzverordnungen” rumschlagen, die mit “getrennten Toiletten” Diskriminierung per Gesetz zementieren und im übrigen auch teuren sinnlosen Platzverbrauch von Nutzflächen bedeutet.

@wolf Auch in Deutschland kann man ungegenderte Toiletten haben, wenn sie baulich so getrennt sind, dass es egal ist, auf welches Klo man geht. Es geht ja zum Beispiel auch in der Bahn.

Nein, grundsätzlich nicht ab einer bestimmten MA Anzahl. Das Arbeitsschutzverordnung.

@wolf Ich hab mal in die ASR A4.1 geschaut. Die unterscheidet Sanitär-, Toilettenräume und Toilettenzellen . Sanitärräume sind die klassische Gruppentoiletten mit mehreren Toilettenzellen. Ein Toilettenraum hat aber nur eine Toilette und ein Handwaschbecken. Wenn du Sanitärräume hast, musst du die nach Geschlecht ausweisen. Toilettenräume aber nicht. Seh ich da jedenfalls nicht.

@livho in the US multi-stall bathrooms have stalls with walls and doors that have a 40-50cm gap at the bottom.

I think the justification is to make it easier to clean, but you can just imagine the resulting issues.

Single bathrooms are frequently ungendered even here.

@RandomDamage When I was in the US last week, I was actually impressed to see ungendered bathrooms at Venice beach. I really didn’t imagine it there due to all the media coverage how unthinkable that apparently is for many people/politicians.

@livho This is one aspect that amazes me: That's the way home washrooms are here, as well. So why so much pushback about public washrooms? Just make them a bunch of individual, unspecified washrooms, and it's no different than what people have at home.

(The big controversy here is over big communal washrooms where the stalls are little separate compartments but there's a shared area for sinks and so on.)

@PastaThief @livho @n8chz yeah plus the communal washroom concern is totally solved by making the stalls floor-to-ceiling rather than just a cheap flimsy metal door with huge gaps. we have the fully-private washrooms with shared sinks at work and no one has a problem with it (or if they do, it’s not going to change anything lol) 👍 I actually think they’re amazing - I’d be glad if it was legally mandated that all shared washrooms had to be like that!

@amatecha @livho @n8chz Yeah, quite a long time ago (over a decade, I think), I went to a fancy restaurant that just had a long hallway of individual locking stalls with floor-to-ceiling doors and then a communal trough-style sink running the length of them opposite. They weren't split by gender at all. I thought it was great and nobody seemed to have a problem at all. Also, my non-scientific observation was that it increased the % of men actually washing their hands.

@livho Makes sense: it private houses there are only shared toilets.
Just noticed: odd arrangement of hinges on the door.

@livho There are a lot of places even in the USA where there are single stall restrooms that anyone can use. Places that have multiple stalls are usually gender-specific.

@livho I'm sure everyone is terrified by the unbearable amount of rape committed by trans people :blobcatderpy:

@livho I observed the same when I visited Åre, glad to see it's a thing elsewhere in Sweden too

@livho Yes. And they build it, so massive that you don't care who is next door. I don't like the German solution where they simply remove the gendered sign at the restrooms and it feels like both rooms are wrong. It should make more people feel comfortable and not fewer

@heluecht At least at that location there are no urinals. But I know of other places (mainly pubs) with a separate room with only urinals.

@livho Sounds like an ideal solution. In our company in theory we have got separate toilets for male and female (we don't have any urinals) but in reality the people don't care and use whatever room is free. (And it doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone)
This is possible, but neither simple nor cheap. For this to work, the sink for handwashing (sometimes one needs to wet a piece of toilet paper for more complicated defecation situations etc.) and the trashcan for female hygiene supplies has to be inside the stall, i.e. the stall needs to be larger and one needs many sinks. The buerocratic regulations could/should be changed to allow this, though.

In Holland auch, Abgetrennte Kloschüsseln und davor die Waschbecken für W/M/D.

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