tech.lgbt is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
We welcome all marginalized identities. This Mastodon instance is generally for folks who are LGBTQIA+ and Allies with an interest in tech work, academics, or technology in general.

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Just seen the best bit of commentary on transmisogyny I’ve seen in ages: if you want to know how a man treats cis women in private, look at how he treats trans women in public.
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@goatsarah I don't see how this makes sense. It's perfectly possible for someone to be transphobic but have perfectly healthy and normal relationships with anyone who isn't trans. It seems quite the leep to say look how he mistreats trans people, he must, therefore, mistreat people who are not trans. 😕

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@JustinMac84 [mastodon.social] and by the same token, it’s perfectly possible for someone saying what you just said to have a different definition of healthy and normal than the women in his life.
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@goatsarah anything's possible, but the OP says "if this person does x, he must also do y". That's a generalisation that logic simply doesn't support. Given that transphobia and misoginy are different traits, there is nothing to say that a negative behaviour directed at one person for one cause would be directed at another for a different one. What I'm trying to say is that, if we both agree the things in my post are possible, it follows that the OP cannot be stated as fact.

@JustinMac84 @goatsarah Okay, I'll bite. I've no idea if this is a good-faith argument or someone who's bored and looking for a laugh, so I'm not going to reply to responses.

People's attitudes to homosexuality, to transness, and to women are closely tied. They're not the same thing, but they feed off each other. For example, there's an inter-relatedness in the fear of being seen as effeminate, between fear of gay men and a perceived "ickiness" of women. Cis-men are also under intense pressure to conform to gender norms, and over time that often develops into an aversion towards being "mistaken" for a woman. Strict cis-heterosexuality is potentially unstablised by any threat to the membrane between "wanting to have" and "wanting to be". Someone who likes airline pilots and maybe wants to be an airline pilot (or once did or doesn't, or maybe marry one, or hang out with them) can do so quite easily in a fluid way, and this fluidity has to be policed in cis-heterosexuality when it comes to sexuality. ...

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@chiffchaff @goatsarah Well you've replied and run away so I guess this reply is kinda pointless, but "tain't necessarily so" is proven by the fact that some trans people feel rejected and discriminated against by members of the lesbian and gay communities. Lesbian women rejecting trans women being seen as transphobic. Transphobia without homophobia. And "tain't necessarily so" is all that matters to show the generalised assumption false.

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@JustinMac84 @goatsarah No, I'm reading your replies. But I'm not going to reply substantively, as these debates are tedious to me, as they are old and unoriginal. If I had a Patreon you could pay to continue if you are motivated to do so, but I don't and I have to make a dairylea toasted sandwich and go see the ducks on the reservoir.

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@JustinMac84 [mastodon.social] @chiffchaff [tech.lgbt] your sealioning on my wall is filling up my notifications, so I’m server blocking you for it. Bye
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@goatsarah @chiffchaff A considered and rational response to debate.

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@JustinMac84 @goatsarah ... The way a trans-man treats "otherness" in respect to this whole cluster of aversions correlates how they treat otherness in other circumstances in this bundle. Trans-people at present can be attacked under the cover of "concern" which doesn't look overtly misogynistic, society is (infuriatingly) making this a "free hit" in this game under cover of concern and is powered by the uncanny feeling that comes from a threat to the deep sense of the inherent naturalness and defaultness of not being "other" in any of these categories. Which carries across to other categories in the cluster.

If someone feels a deep need to police bathrooms for genitalia, that likely carries over to policing jobs for genitalia too, or strength, coming from the same deep tangle. It's all the same gig.

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